Using Behavioral Science to Improve Your Product | Lenny’s Podcast

Lenny's Podcast: Episode 32

How Can Companies Improve Conversion & Retention Using Behavioral Science?

Lenny's Podcast | With Kristen Berman

Irrational Labs CEO & Co-Founder Kristen Berman joins Lenny Rachitsky on Lenny’s Podcast to talk about how she helps companies like Google, Airbnb, PayPal, Microsoft, and LinkedIn improve their products and services through behavioral design research.

Kristen shares Irrational Labs’ 3B Framework of Behavioral Design and illustrates what influences behavior change and the common biases that block product success using real-life examples. She also explains how to keep users engaged and how to leverage behavioral design research to drive innovation and growth.

Topics include:

  • 7 different case studies, from sign-up flows to heuristics
  • Tactical tips to implement behavioral design
  • The ethics of behavioral science

Regardless of whether you’re new to behavioral economics or are already using behavioral design to increase retention and engagement, this episode of Lenny’s Podcast will give you a new perspective on how to build successful products.

Lenny’s Podcast Episode Details

(03:54) What is Irrational Labs, and what do they do?

(05:45) What are behavioral economics and behavioral design?

(06:50) The fintech budgeting experiment

(10:46) What drives behavior change?

(11:35) Why increasing friction can sometimes increase conversion

(13:51) How to ask the right questions for user engagement

(16:09) How Kristen got her start in behavioral economics

(18:10) The 3B model of behavior change

(20:37) Cognitive barriers

(22:02) The importance of building products with immediate benefits to the user

(24:20) How exploitation can occur

(26:45) How to set customer-friendly incentives

(29:15) How Kristen reduced the sharing of misinformation on TikTok

(31:58) Tips for researching and solving problems

(35:36) The One Medical case study

(38:31) Rules of thumb for improving flow

(41:46) What is right-for-wrong?

(47:00) How to get started using behavioral design

(49:33) The Behavioral Design Bootcamp

(52:01) Lightning round!

Where to Find Kristen Berman

• Twitter:

• LinkedIn:

• Website:

Where to Find Lenny

• Newsletter:

• Twitter:

• LinkedIn:


Learn More Behavioral Science

• Irrational Labs newsletter, with latest BE and behavioral design insights: 

• Join the Behavioral Design Online Bootcamp (use code “Lenny” for 10% off):

• Get the 3B Framework:

• Behavioral Design & Diagnosis Cheat Sheet:

• The 16 Critical Cognitive Biases (Plus Key Academic Research):

• Behavioral Game Design: 7 Lessons:

• Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions:

• Prolific testing platform:

• Kristen’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter:

• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion

• The Darwin Economy: Liberty, Competition, and the Common Good

• The Science of Change podcast:

• No Stupid Questions podcast:

• Stream The Rehearsal on HBO Max:

• Chris York’s website:

Case Studies Mentioned

• Budgeting fintech:

• TikTok:

• One Medical:

• Credit Karma:

• TytoCare:

• Kiva:

• When to Make Your Sign-Up Flow Harder:

Lenny's podcast cover art Kristen Berman episode

About the Podcast

Lenny Rachitsky interviews world-class product leaders and growth experts to uncover concrete, actionable, and tactical advice to help you build, launch, and grow your own product.